Sunday, July 10, 2011

Questions: Adding goat's milk and using BTMS in a lotion

I'm asked regularly about making goats' milk lotions, and all I can say is that I don't know. This is what I know about goats - they're cute, they're cuddly, they seem to enjoy eating tin cans, and this video about the baby goat stampede makes me smile. I hate anything to do with goat milk - cheese, ice cream, yogurt - even though as a lactard, I could actually eat it. I find it has a really gamy smell to me, so I don't go near it much. I have no idea how one would incorporate it into a lotion, except to say that you'd want to use it in the heated water stage...possibly. Sorry I can't be more helpful here.

Anonymous asked: I have a question that I hope is not too strange. Can BTMS or even Incroquat CR be used with another emulsifying wax such as Polawax or NatraMulse, for conditioning purposes in a lotion? Thanks in advance!

You can use BTMS and Incroquat CR with Polawax to get a more dry feeling or more conditioning lotion - I have many examples of combining these cationic ingredients with Polawax or e-wax on the blog, especially in sugar scrubs and scrub bars - but you can't use it with Natramulse (actual name: Ritamulse SCG also called Ecomulse) because you can't use cationic ingredients with that emulsifier. This means no polyquats or cationic quaternary compounds in those lotions!

Ritamulse SCG can be found as Ecomulse or Natramulse or by other names at our suppliers. Its INCI is Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate and it's an anionic or negatively charged ingredient. For this reason, we can't use positively charged ingredients in lotions made with Ritamulse SCG or we'll see an epic lotion fail. It also doesn't use the HLB system as that's for non-ionic or neutrally charged ingredients. I'll be writing more about this emulsifier shortly. 

And this is the thing to look for when you're considering adding something to your lotions. Make sure the thing you want to add is compatible with the other ingredients. (For instance, if you were to use something like Tinosan as your preservative, remember that it doesn't work well with cationic ingredients.)

Click here for a post on what it means if something's anionic, cationic, or non-ionic

This isn't something we worry about a lot - most of our lotion ingredients are non-ionic or neutrally charged like oils, butters, emulsifiers (most), fatty alcohols, fatty acids, proteins, extracts, humectants, and so on. But it's always wise to check if you aren't sure. If you see something called a conditioner - conditioning emulsifier, conditioning agent, emulsifying conditioner - it's likely cationic. Most of our surfactants - the foamy kinds you might find in cleansing products (see the section on this topic here) - are anionic. Some aren't, so it's always best to check if you're in doubt! (Click here for the surfactant chart!)

Join me tomorrow for more formulating fun!


Meaue said...

Most recipes I've seen use the powdered goats milk. I don't think I'd use it fresh from the goat. I made lotion with the powder and the subtle smell of the goats milk came through. I didn't like it with the FO I used, but some people I gave it too loved it. Must be a personal thing. Welcome back, Susan! I missed you!

Tara said...

I wish the suppliers would offer more info on the ingredients. I bought the "Natramulse" (from another supplier), but no where on their description does it say anything about it being anionic. You can't get onto manufacturers' sites to look at their tech sheets without a password, so if it isn't for you or other gurus, how can I find this info?? I once put Honeyquat in a Natramulse emulsion, and I thought it felt a little different, but no separation occurred in the time frame that it was used.

Magia said...

I would use powdered goats milk too. I think would put it into the heated water stage too, though you could probably put it in during cool down stage and it would disolve in quite happily. It's pretty easy to shake a bit in and see how you go. I haven't put any in lotions yet, but often include it in soaps and bath bombs. (Works really well in bath bombs!) I would probably try and make an egyptian/cleopatra themed item if I was using it, with lotus, jasmine, sandalwood and maybe frankinsence. I think that would go really nicely with the creaminess of it. But hey, that's just me. :)

cest cheese said...

I used powdered goat milk in the heated water phase of a lotion recipe. Even though I think I didn't use enough emulsifier for my oils, it least it appeared to. It was super thick almost immediately upon mixing-almost too thick to pour, but I loved the creamy texture.
What I noticed was the slightly "milky" odor. I also used hemp oil, so that effected the smell too, even though I used bergamot essential oil. It had a slightly, goaty, sour, orange cream-sicle scent...not exactly what I want to wear.

I'd change the oils in the future, add more scent to fix this, but what really made it an unusable product was that while rubbing it into my skin, it began to pill, ball up like putting lotion on sunburned skin and seeing the skin rub off!

I wasn't sunburned or unclean, so perhaps it had to do with the wrong amount of emulsifier for the amount of oils I used?

63% distilled H20
13 % powdered goat milk

14% hemp oil
2% mango butter
5% stearic acid

1% Vit E
2% liquid Germall Plus
1.3% Bergamot essential oil

Heated oil and water phases separately in microwave to 170 F. Held both in dbl boiler in oven at 178 F for 20 min. Mixed with stick blender in 3-second bursts for 30- seconds. Cooled to 115 F, then mixed in cool down phase ingredients.


Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Traci. Did you use 1% BTMS? That might explain why it didn't emulsify 21% oils!

Marg said...

Cest Cheese, to calculate the amount of emulsifier required, you multiply your total oils x 25%. In this case, as Susan said, your oils phase was 21%..21 x .25 = 5.25 % emulsifier.

cest cheese said...

Thanks for the feedback on the emulsifier calculation!
I'll try it again and report back.

trunkbranches1 said...

The reason for bad tasting milk is usually either of several things...
1) Been with a buck... they pee on themselves to atract the ladies. Now, I don't know why that attracts the ladies. LOL
2) Milk Not chilled right away after milking... I put mine in the freezer for 90 minutes to quick chill
3) Udder not clean
4) Goats eating weeds

If goat milk is handled correctly it is very sweet and not at all gamy (sp?) or goaty. In fact, just the other day I had a guy say of my milk, "I don't know how goat milk can taste like cow's milk, but yours does. this is the best tasting goat milk I've ever tasted." The idea here is proper handled milk will not be goaty tasting or smelling.

Goat milk is very healthy for the skin and body