Monday, December 9, 2013

What do you want to know? Combining emulsifiers

In the What do you want to know post, Katie Z asks: I've been wondering what would happen if I used two complete emulsifiers together in one formulation. This came up because I was looking at your emulsified scrub, and it calls for 10% emulsifier. I use Olivem 1000 [INCI: Cetearyl Olivate (and) Sorbitan Olivate], and the recommended usage only goes up to 8%. I haven't been able to determine whether that's a safety issue or a general recommendation. So I was thinking about using 8% Olivem 1000 and 2% BTMS-50. But I didn't know if doing that would cause some kind of catastrophic failure. 

I've also wondered if I could alter the skin feel of my creations by combining BTMS-50 and Olivem 1000. BTMS-50 lotions are too powdery for me, but sometimes I want something drier than I could get with the oils/butters I've come to love and Olivem 1000.

I've tried a combination of BTMS-50 and Polawax and it worked out fine. A little thicker than I would have liked, but the emulsion was very stable. I realize this is only my anecdotal evidence, but I feel confident in saying that I think your emulsion would remain stable.

As well, though, you can use 8% of your emulsifier in the product and have it come out fine. I've tried the emulsifier - Polawax in one situation and Ritamulse SCG in another - as low as 5% and, although I didn't feel like it rinsed off as cleanly as I would have liked, it was satisfactory.

6 comments:

Katie Ziegler said...

Yay! You answered my burning question! I have to finish making my CP soaps for Christmas presents, and then the first thing I'm going to do is make that emulsified scrub with a combo of Olivem and BTMS. I can't wait!

Thank you so much for your response and for everything else you do. I don't know how you have the time or energy to take care of so many people, but you do an amazing job!

cedarusdeodora said...

Is this a joke? Olivem1000 and any BTMS do not work together because of the different charges. All will turn into layered cheese

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Wow, cedarusdeodora. Is that any way to speak to someone? Do you really think that's an appropriate way to express your disagreement with someone you don't know on the Internet? I'm really disappointed...

cedarusdeodora said...

Excuse me, but they did not work together. Check for simple emulsions. Not all cationic components coexist with anionic. Regularly watch over your blog. I really like a lot. I just answered your thoughts: " But I didn't know if doing that would cause some kind of catastrophic failure. "
Yes, it will a catastrophic failure)))
Although I was pretty sure you were joking)))

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

I still don't get how you think this is an okay way to speak to someone. You completely missed the point. I will not engage in a conversation with you if you are going to be so rude. If you think I'm wrong, present your opinion in a way that is respectful and kind. Then provide me with some back up material. I'm always open to the idea I might not be right...but I'm not open to rudeness or being put down.

To those of you who might actually want to know more about Olivem 1000, it's non-ionic, and it's perfectly fine to mix the non-ionic emulsifiers with cationic ones like Incroquat BTMS-50. (Reference)

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

So, no follow up? This is where we leave it, with you insulting me and me proving my point? I had hoped for an apology. I'm disappointed again...