Monday, September 5, 2011

Preservatives: Liquid Leucidal (Ecocert)

Please read this post I wrote on this preservative as there are some concerns that it might not work well or at all. I know the appeal of natural can be very strong, but if it's on par with using no preservatives, we are putting ourselves and our loved ones at risk for all kinds of gross stuff! 

I have to be very clear that I cannot in good conscience suggest this preservative. Look at that linked post for more information. If you want to use it, I can't stop you, but I don't suggest it. I have left this post here because I hope you will take a look at the evidence against it and make your own decisions. Plus, if I take it down, people will ask about it and I don't want to have to answer the same question every week! 

Yesterday we took a look at Advanced Aloe Leucidal - today let's take a look at Liquid Leucidal as an Ecocert preservative.

Liquid Leucidal
INCI: Leuconostoc/Radish Root Ferment Filtrate

From Lotioncrafter: "Derived from radishes fermented with Leuconostoc kimchii, a lactic acid bacteria that has traditionally been used to make kimchi, this product consists of an isolated peptide that is secreted from the bacteria during the fermentation process that has been shown to have antimicrobial benefits."

Liquid Leucidal is a water soluble broad spectrum preservative best used at under 70˚C (cool down phase) at 2% to 4%. It may not be compatible with some cationic ingredients, so be careful using this in hair care products (conditioners, leave-in conditioners, shampoos with cationic polymers), body care products in which you might be using cationic polymers, or lotions in which you might use BTMS.

A disclaimer about this last sentence: I wasn't able to confirm the information about incompatibility with cationic ingredients anywhere but the Herbarie. We saw yesterday that Advanced Aloe Leucidal was incompatible with some cationic ingredients, but that doesn't mean that this product is incompatible with cationic ingredients, too. I would expect the data sheets from the company (see below) to provide some information on incompatibilities, and I didn't find anything about avoiding cationic ingredients, so use them at your own risk. In my experiments, I avoided cationic ingredients - primarily cationic polymers - just to be on the safe side. 

The company claims that 1% liquid Leucidal can increase moisturization of our skin by 10% thanks to the isolated peptide.

This preservative would be suitable for all your products that contain water, although I recommend that you ensure your product is at 45˚C or lower before including it in the cool down phase. I tried it with lotions and twice the product seized horribly (once at 50˚C, the other at 52˚C). I've tried it with Polawax and Ecomulse (aka Ritamulse) and found no difference (in the ones that didn't seize, but that was a temperature thing).

I've tried it with a body wash and a bubble bath and found no problems in incorporating it into the cool down phase. So far, all of these products show no visible contamination.

Here's the data sheet on this product from Lotioncrafter! And here's a data sheet with information on the moisturizing properties of just 1% of liquid Leucidal. And here's a Powerpoint presentation with some sample formulae.

Join me tomorrow as we take a look at Nata-Pres, another Ecocert preservative!

56 comments:

moosie said...

I've used this in my facial lotion with ecomulse and it has been working great. Sorry I'm still new at all this but what does "seized" mean

Tonya said...

I have also used this in my toner & cream recently. I purchased it from formulatorsampleshop.com and they sell in smaller qty..

Miss E. said...

Hi, I've been really happy with Leucidal, but I also started using it with Gluconolactone (and) Sodium Benzoate (AKA Microguard.)
I'll be starting with challenge testing soon, so then I'll really see how it's performing.

Lisa said...

They just came out with a new one. Leucidal SF i just ordered it
has anyone tried it

Jennifer Wilson said...

Hi Lisa, I did order the SF as well It worked great in my lotion formulation. I used it at 4% for the extra coverage. I did speak to someone from there and they said I can lower the usage % and if I would like I can use aspen bark with it for my reassurance. so i will try the aspen bark
Thanks for letting me know about formulator shop much lower than the otrher places thanks

Rebecca Deering said...

Thanks for helping girls/gents. I also love a good deal. i used to purchase from lotioncrafters as well and switched over
the sample shop now has a deal on the leucidal liquid
look here http://www.formulatorsampleshop.com/dealoftheday.asp

Jessie said...

I just spoke with someone at the sample shop and they recently developed Arborcide OC it is the same as leucidal but can be used in organic formulations and certified. they emailed me all the testing so far looks good. i am waiting for my order to arrive

Loretta said...

Yes, I spoke with them as well. They said Arborcide is not Certified Organic by the USDA National Organic Program but it is allowed for use in Certified Organic products according to section 205.605 of the Code of Federal Regulations. You still need to have your certifier sign off on this. They did develop leuicidal PT for a powder treatment preservative i received my sample yesterday will do stability testing next week

melinda said...

Thank you so much! I just ordered the arborcide this is great news.
i see a lot of people deal with this company, the two people i spoke with so far has provided great help and well as this blog

Stephanie's Soaps N More said...

I called and was provided a free 4 oz sample - i received it 2 weeks ago and so far so good i am using it for an organic formulation

Anonymous said...

If anyone has follow up information in regards to their challenge testing or general efficacy I would be most grateful!

stephanie said...

They have it posted on the site and if you call them they will give it to you, i called them a few months ago and they emailed it to me.

Anonymous said...

I will be using LL with my hyaluronic acid. 2% inclusion.
Going into a facial anti aging lotion.
It can be used with Germall right?
Should it be used at all with germall?

Julia said...

Hi Susan!
This is my preverative of choice! The problem I have run into: I would like to use it in my emulsified body scrub ( I LOVE the recipe on your blog!), problem is that leucidal liquid is water soluable. So technically it wont hold in the scrub mix, right? I was thinking of maybe adding a minimal amount of aloe as the waterphase. Still using 10% ewax and 10% stearic acid, will the preservative stay in the mix properly then? OR will the aloe dissolve the sugar?

Thank you, Julia

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Julia! Great question! It'll be in Sunday, April 7th's Weekend Wonderings. The short answer - you can't use water in the scrub, so you can't use this preservative in the scrub. Sorry!

makingskincare.com said...

I was interested to read Ann Marie's comments on Leucidal on 17 Oct 2012 - http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/lotion/talk-it-out-tuesday-preservatives/ "I have heard of Leucidal and have tested it personally here for potentially bringing in to Bramble Berry. It molded on us in multiple tests, some as early as a week"

and her comment on 7 Nov 12 - "We’ve tested it here and have not found it to be an adequate preservative under normal manufacturing conditions for home crafters. Our product molded rather alarmingly quickly."

This is a bit worrying!

makingskincare.com said...

Whoops, forgot to post this link too - see Robert's comment - http://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/1809/oily-skin-moisturiser/p1

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Thanks, makingskincare.com for the links! I've done some more reading, and wrote about it in today's Weekend Wonderings. I will put a link to it on the main page of this post so others might read it, too. Great work!

Ashley Patton said...

How long do you find the shelf life of your products are with Leucidal and at what percentage to you use it. It has been suggested to me to use it at 1% with Phytocide Elderberry at .5% for a broad spectrum coverage. But I don't know what shelf life this will give my lotions. Any information is appreciated

Pam said...

Question, I'm starting to make homemade sugar scrubs and read that Leucidal® Liquid was a good preservative to add. How much of Leucidal® Liquid should I use in each jar of sugar scrub?? I'm new to all if this and want to ensure that no one will become ill from any bacteria growth in my products. Please help!!

Thanks.

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Pam. The short answer is that you can't use Leucidal with a sugar scub as it is a water soluble preservative. To see a longer answer, check out today's Weekend Wonderings.

Erica said...

@makingskincare.com. I also had issues with molds in my lotions. I don't think I will be using it anytime in the near future. I want to offer natural products, but not at my clients expense!!

Anonymous said...

I have a Neroli floral water toner with NO water but I want something in there just to be safe and extend shelf life a bit - would Leucidal work - any suggestions would be welcome.

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

HI Anonymous. I have to delete your message as you didn't attach your name to it, but I'll answer it anyway.

Your neroli flower water toner contains water - hence the term "floral water" - so it needs a preservative. There have been some issues with it - read the comments - so check those out before you make your choice.

Anonymous said...

I've used this preservative at 5% with Panthenol and Hyaluronic Acid and distilled water, but a few times there was a red tint while other times it was clear (as it should be). Is it because the preservative has gone bad?

Anonymous said...

Sorry I meant at 3% in my earlier post.

Also, what's the difference between Leucidal Liquid, Leucidal Liquid SF and PT?

Maggie Ghanem said...

Hi, I hope I can answer your questions. My name is Maggie from Formulator Sample Shop.
Our Leucidal Liquid line is manufactured by Active Micro Technologies, which is our sister company. Please feel free to contact me direct: info@formulatorsampleshop.com or 704-276-7099 and I can go over the difference with you. Thank you. Maggie Ghanem

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Anonymous. Please don't post without a name on your comment. It's a policy of my blog to delete comments of this nature...

Can you post your complete recipe with process and we'll figure out what's going on.

Jessica said...

I'm wondering if Leucidal Liquid
would be a good preservative choice for use in a body spray containing water, polysorbate 20, vegetable glycerin, and EO's? Also if anyone has a good body/linen spray recipe I would dearly appreciate some guidance. I have been researching for months on end and still can not decide on any, also most recipes out there do not provide a preserving method. Thanks in advance! Jessica

Tenesha Sailes said...

HI I was wondering what type of all natural preservatives could I use for a face mask that includes neem powder, oat powder, honey, tanamu oil,jojoba oil,lavender oil, vitamin e oil, and honey. Currently I have liquid leucidal and citric acid on hand would these work if mixed? Thanks!

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Tenesha. Citric acid isn't a preservative. It's a sequestering and chelating ingredient that can behave as an anti-oxidant and pH adjuster. I wouldn't use it in this recipe or any other one if you don't have a pH meter. Are you mixing all these ingredients every time you use it or making a big batch and hoping it'll last for a while?

Tenesha Sailes said...

I haven't used the citric acid or leucidal yet but the other ingredients I have used mixed together in small batches. What would be a safe preservative to use? Thanks!

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Are you making these ingredients every time you use this product or are you making a big batch and hoping it'll last for a while? If you leave out the honey, you wouldn't need a preservative.

Nadia Fatica said...

Hi.

Can I ask for some help. I am making body sprays, with distilled water, EOs, witch hazel (non-alcohol), and floral waters. Would Leucidal Liquid work as a preservative. I will have to do personal testing but I want to make sure I buy the right things first and not spend lots of money on experimenting with different preservatives.

thank you, Natalia

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Nadia. I don't recommend Leucidal as there are reports coming out that it isn't working well. I think you might want to choose another broad spectrum preservative that is more effective.

Nadia Fatica said...

Thank you Susan,

Can you recommend a more natural broad spectrum preservative?

Or, what are your thoughts on Liquid Germall Plus?

Thanks again,
Nadia

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Nadia. Check out the preservatives section of the blog to learn more about preservatives. I use liquid Germall Plus in just about every recipe on this blog. I'm very fond of it.

jennaalevine said...

Hi.
I use leucidal, gluconodelta lactone and aspen bark as my preservative system, and lately i have observed some strange activity in my serums that I have yet to experience before. I have observed small white clumos floating throughout the serum , almost white threads at the edge where the serum meets the bottle and the newest discovery- total solidification. please advise!!!

im looking for an effective preservative system for my water based personal care products- I want my products to be able to last at least a year, be safe, natural, and gentle to the planet. thank you!

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Please post your recipe in percentages and your process and we can help further. At this point, it would just be guess work!

Jessica said...

Hello. I'm fairly new to all of this and am doing a lot of reading. (Normally my sugar scrub is simply sugar, organic virgin coconut oil and essential oil)... I'd like to expand and work with other oils and am making a conscious effort to not include sulfate, phthalates, paragons, artificial dies or fragrances, etc and I'm aware from all my reading that preservation is important in order to prevent mold and other growth and to extend the shelf life. Am I reading correctly that any scrub, whipped soap or body butter, body wash or soap bar will need a preservative but there isn't a preservative that doesn't contain at least one of the things I'm trying to avoid?

Jessica said...

sorry lol parabens

Jessica said...

and dyes... wow my computer hates me today.


Basically I'd like to have my shelf life be longer that a few days or weeks without adding the nasties so many people are trying to avoid..

Jessica said...

For example I saw these ingredients listed for a body butter on Etsy:

Mango butter, unrefined fair-trade shea butter, organic extra virgin coconut oil*, organic extra virgin olive oil*, organic jojoba oil*, organic sunflower seed oil*, grapeseed oil, meadowfoam seed oil, sweet almond oil, apricot kernel oil, vegetable glycerin, natural vitamin E, lavender essential oil, lemon essential oil, tangerine essential oil


I see no mentioned of a preservative in the ingredients yet there is no disclaimer about shelf life, not getting water or dirty hands inside, etc..

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Jessica. A lot of people sell things without preservatives on Etsy and other sites. I wouldn't use them and I wouldn't give them out as gifts because that is a disaster waiting to happen. Why do they take the chance? I think people who don't know enough about making products are selling things and have no business doing so, or they think the problems won't happen to them. What I can say is that once people learn enough to know the bad things that can happen and that a titch of a preservative can stop it, very few people would opt not to use one.

If this product is an anhydrous body butter and won't be around water, it doesn't need a preservative. It needs an anti-oxidant, which I see in the list. Unfortunately, they're using glycerin in the product, which means it should have a preservative and an emulsifier, neither of which is included.

I encourage you to check out the newbie section where I go into great detail about our products and what we find in them.

Why are you avoiding those things you mention? I'm just curious why you think these are things that should be avoided, especially when you're new to making products.

There are so many good preservatives you can choose from, so it's up to you to do your homework and research each one of them to see which one fits your philosophy. Then you'll have to find it at a supplier, then see the cost and see if it fits into your budget.

This is such a great hobby and I'm so happy you want to use preservatives in your products! Let me know if i can be of further help!

Jessica said...

Thank you for your response! It's much appreciated! Sorry I am just getting back. I didn't hit refresh on the page I had open so didn't realize you responded yet. I guess in a somewhat naive way, I am avoiding those things because of all the negativity surrounding them if that makes sense. For example, I made a scrub with my daughter the other day that was coconut oil, almond oil, cocoa butter, brown & white sugars, cacao powder, vitamin e and peppermint EO.. It's divine and a few friends of mine tried it and loved it..I'd love to share but don't want that risk of nasties growing in it. It just seems that every preservative has something in it's make up that people are trying to avoid so I'm not sure what to do. I have been reading up on preservatives non stop and of course it seems to only make sense to use them to avoid risk but then there's also the huge sea of people that are trying to avoid the ingredients in them - i.e. Liquid Germall and Optiphen both have a ton of negative reviews and publicity.

Jessica said...

I meant to ask about what you mentioned about the above body butter not needing a preservative but rather an antioxidant.. My daughter wants to make both a hand cream and a body butter (She's 11 and very inquisitive). I found her two simple recipes to make a little batch of each - The hand cream is shea butter, almond oil, beeswax, and EO. The body butter is shea butter, cocoa butter, coconut oil, almond oil and EO. Do either of these need anything additional to last if water won't be introduced to them?

Kandace said...

Hi There, if a product has only oil based ingredients you only need to use an antioxidant such as Vitamin e to help the oils from going rancid. Don't put dirty or wet fingers in the product or it will go bad. If the ingredients include water soluble ingredients (or water) such as glycerin or aloe vera etc you will need a broad spectrum preservative for micro bacterial as well as anti fungal and mold. If you have water soluble ingredients and oil ingredients you will also need an emulsifier to bind them together or they will separate.

Leucideal preservatives are broad spectrum microbial and will also need a mold and fungus preservative to go with it, such as Sodium Benzoate (PH 4.5, not to use with vitamin C).
This is what I have read.

I tried using ECOCERT Standard Geogard ECT and after 2 months started to notice a smell. The Ingredient Benzyl Alcohol will oxidize in 6 months (from manufacturing) to Benzaldahyde (smells like almonds) and Sorbic Acid will also Oxidize (smells like petrolium). The Shelve life says one year, but I would say much shorter unless you use containers like airless pumps or tubes etc.

Jessica said...

Interesting thank you! I was just actually looking up Geogard® 221 and thought to check if I had a response on this and you happened to mention Geogard. Thank you! That's helpful.

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Hi Jessica. I think you need to refine your terms because lotions and creams always contain oil and water, which means you need a preservative. Kandace said it beautifully - if you aren't using water and if the product won't be exposed to water, you don't need a preservative. Scrubs needa a preservative because they are being exposed to water in your shower or tub or when you put wet hands into it.

I encourage you to click on the newbie section of the blog as all your questions are answered there.

I use liquid Germall Plus for almost all my products, and it is very effective. I have tried the "natural" preservatives and I wasn't satisfied with them for a number of reasons. They're expensive, they're not easy to use, you have a use a lot of them, and they aren't reliable.

If you don't want to use a preservative, please don't make things with water or scrubs. It's simply too dangerous not to use them. If you use Geogard 221, you need to add something like sodium benzoate because it's not a broad spectrum preservative.

My suggesting is to use preservatives that are effective and easy to use. Check the preservative section to learn more about them, and see which one you'd prefer to use and can access easily from a local supplier.

leese said...

I've been looking into the Leucidal® Liquid(s) and think it has been given a bad rap because it's being used improperly. I went to Soap Queen to attempt to make the same comment but comments are no longer accepted for that thread. The reason mold was growing on her samples is because it's NOT an anti fungal, anti mold preservative. It's an antimicrobial and should be combined with its sister product (other whatever anti-fungal/mold), AMTicide® Coconut. This thread is a few years old and maybe AMTicide® Coconut wasn't around yet or the claims were different then (that it was a broad spectrum preservative). But right now it looks to me that using these two together is a pretty awesome, more natural, preservative alternative.

Susan Barclay-Nichols said...

Thanks, Ieese. Where do we could get AMTicide Coconut? Do you have any links to studies or tests that show anything about these two together? I'd love to learn more.

The company markets it as a broad spectrum preservative, so I think it's natural for someone to use it that way. There are huge companies who are using it and running into problems - look at the Badger sunscreen recall, for instance - so the idea that it's a broad spectrum preservative isn't limited to homecrafters.

As a note, have you seen this article: Identification of Didecyldimethylammonium Salts and Salicylic Acid as Antimicrobial Compounds in Commercial Fermented Radish Kimchi, basically saying that the preserving power they found in the ferment filtrate may be from the preservatives added to the preservative? What do you think?

leese said...

How I got it in my head was due to reading this -- page 5 of 5 of (http://www.lotioncrafter.com/reference/tech_data_amticide_coconut.pdf).

"AMTicide® Coconut was developed to be coupled with one of our broad-spectrum antimicrobials, such as Leucidal® Liquid, or perhaps any preservative package that is lacking protection, against yeast and mold. This added boost of antifungal activity is the natural additive that will protect your product and consumers". Active Micro Technologies does sort of acknowledge LL's lack of antifungal properties. However, you are correct in that they do still market it as a broad sprectrum. They SHOULD market them together since they are complementary. However, AMTicide Coconut's need for sealed containers away from sunlight and not playing well with anionic forumlations might make it like dating a high maintenance chick and not worth the pain. Now with this article you've shared, I think it's all a crock! These are available through Lotion Crafter in Washington.

I found some seemingly nice broad spectrum preservative systems from Inolex like Spectrastat ((caprylhydroxamic acid (and) caprylyl glycol (and) glycerin)) and Phenostat ((caprylhydroxamic acid (and) phenethyl alcohol (and) glycerin) but upon investigation were found only to be available in drums! lol Not exactly for the hobbyist or local seller. These are used in Honest Company's products which is how I found them.

In my search to find a decent preservative for lotions for myself and maybe friends, I think I'm just going to use Liquid Germall Plus because it seems to be one of the easiest.

Thanks again for your blog and free sharing of information. I did purchase your facial product e-book and it's great. I find I get caught up in the chemistry and theory and not so much the practical aspect of "doing". I make CP soaps and have lots of oils and essential oils so lotions is an organic growth (pun intended!).

Jen Hjelm said...

Hi Susan - I'm formulating a hair conditioner combining leucidal liquid and AMTcide coconut. Not sure on usage rates here. Elsewhere I've seen suggestions of 2.5% leucidal with 1.5% AMTcide in a conditioner formulation similar to mine. Have you read anything recently about the combo of the two? (My full formula below)

4% BTMS-50
2.5% leucidal liquid
1.5% AMTcide coconut
2% cetac
2% hydrolized rice protein
3% DL-panthenol
1% cetyl alcohol
4% light conditioning carrier oil
79.2% distilled water

Jen Hjelm said...

Oh, hm, just found some manufacturer documentation with results for 2% and 2%! Interesting. http://www.in-cosmetics.com/__novadocuments/231674?v=635956227227170000

leese said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
leese said...

Jen Hjelm-- It's often helpful to read previous comments. The comment right before you links to the same documentation you just listed. Starting at the maxiumum percentage (4%) is preferable to see how it behaves in your formulation. I didn't check your ingredients but you have to make sure the formulation is not anionic as the coconut would be incompatible.